Above: from left to right Sweets Jumbo KROM Viking Terra LBB Mugen Musou Shin Fuji ------------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT SIZE LIMIT DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE SET FOR COMPETITION KENDAMAS? Of the above only the Shin Fuji is JKA approved, and only the Shin Fuji and Mugen Musou fit into the KWC "box." The reasoning used in JKA thought on size is twofold - that size (historically) fits well into an average Japanese hand, but also it is a great size for young players (elementary school age (a major target audience of the JKA)). The KWC organizers (and the MKO as well) have allowed a little leeway in size which lets in the Mugen Musou (as well as Sol Flow, KROM Slaydawg, Craft Plus, etc), but these are just slightly larger. I Always enjoy playing Jumbos, and am a massive fan of the KROM Viking. I - mostly - can understand why Jumbos are not competition approved. Vikings - well, those do fit quite well into larger hands. I've been jamming a Terra LBB lately, and THAT fits absolutely perfect in my hands! But it is considered too large by currently standards!? Do we need to reevaluate what size(s) should be competition approved? As someone with 30+ years of skateboarding under my belt, here's one way to think about size... Modern skateboard width varies between 7.5" and 8.8". Pretty much any elementary school child starting skating will begin on 7.5". Most will move up to at least 7.75" or 8.0" by the time they are in their late teens. For children 7.75" really is the perfect starting size. [Just like the current JKA size kendama]. All of these sizes 7.5" to 8.8" can be used in competition. And there can be BIG differences in size... e.g. kick flips (especially double or triple) are much easier on skinny decks. There are also disadvantages to skinny decks, which is why most Pros usually ride 8.0" to 8.5". So... I think at least the LBB size (if not also Viking) should be included in kendama competition (analogous to skateboard width). Shouldn't we in kendama have a wide variety of size for each player to choose from when deciding what to use to compete??? WHAT DO ALL OF YOU THINK ABOUT KENDAMA SIZE FOR COMPETITION??? [I look forward to seeing the thoughts shared in this thread.]
I think that yes, we should have a wide variety of kendama sizes because when you think about it, there are a select few out of the many kendama players who just have bigger hands that aren't made for comp. sized damas, so having a slightly bigger dama like a Viking or LBB that fits most people's hands(and also fits comfortably for people with big, beefy hands) allowed for comps would be very relieving for those that can't adjust to a regular kendama size and need something a slight bit bigger.(that was a bit repetitive, but just please, just DWI[haha, see what I did there?])
Judging from your description, yes, I think it would be beneficial for players to pick a size that they are comfortable with, since everyone has different hand sizes and their own personal preferences. Of course, it should be regulated to some extent to make sure that everyone has a fair shot. I haven't jammed with a LBB yet, but that should be the new size limit, because the size difference between the LBB and the Viking looks a bit drastic in my opinion. (I jammed with a Viking with one a long time ago, sadly I can't recall how it fits with my smallish hands)
The one thing about skateboarding is while deck width changes, deck length usually doesn't. So taking that in consideration there is at least one determining factor to each bird that makes it somewhat "equal". Now take into consideration kendama, should the equality in the Dama be based on the size of the bevel? Cause realisticly, that is the one part that will determine a landed trick or not.
It's more than just the overall size if the damas that factor into their play. Crafts/Kaizen 2.0s have rouned cup rims to help with stalls, Sweets Primes and Next Gens have larger cups, the GT swoop and wormhole, and even the resin made damas to name just a few. It'd be pretty difficult to regulate what damas are and aren't competition approved with so many revolutionary ways people have thought up of to make playing even just a little bit easier, but still just as fun if not more so.
I think another key dimension is the tama. Standard sizing is 60cm diameter. I'm not sure when upscaled damas boost their tama sizing. To answer your question: Although I have not tried upscaled damas (LBB on the top of my list for next purchase @htimSxelA ), standard sizing is limiting to my hands. On @Ben Lowe viedeo of his LBB unboxing @4:20 he shows the fit if the Ken in his hand. He has enough room for index, middle, and ring finger with some EXTRA space between the sarado and slip stop. That looks much more comfortable than my three fingers sardined between the same area of a standard size. So for the "Dama Dad" category at competitions, LBB should be allowed.
I was sad to find out that the LBB wouldn't fit into the KWC box, it is SO close though. Like the spike is maybe 0.5 mm too tall, and the cups are about 1.8 mm too wide if I remember correctly. Perhaps one day the box will change, but for now, them's the rules I guess. When GLOKEN picked the size for the box, they just went with some nice, round numbers. 17 cm tall and 7.5 cm wide. The LBB was already out when they made the box (fun fact: it was the first 'mid size' dama on the market), so it wasn't really something we planned or accounted for. The whole idea of the box didn't even exist at the time. Back then EVERYONE just played with JKA-sized damas, so the thought of using something larger in a contest was kinda obscene to begin with. That has completely changed over the last couple of years though. Lots of contests will allow LBBs though, @RodDama is always working on being allowed to play them in competition lol. Related: I actually do want to create a new shape that will fit the KWC box, it is on my (eventual) to-do list. I've made some handturned prototypes already, and of course they're a ton of fun to jam
There was a similar discussion on what should be accepted in competitions in the U.K, when the new organisers for the British Open allowed any size up to Slay-Dawg. The discussion ultimately went down to, larger kendamas make tricks easier to land, therefore whoever does best may come down to who has the kendama which makes stalls and balances easiest. Not a true and equal representation of who is the best. (Maybe giving everyone the same kendama before a competition, would be an idea - expensive, but fair) But, in a second point of view: the final ended up being Rolf against myself. I was using a new prototype Royal, and Rolf using a Slaydawg. I was beaten ridiculously badly. But, was it the fact that he was using a kendama 4% bigger? No. It was the worst I've done on stage in a while. There are definitely arguments for both sides, when concerning the knock-out competition format
There have been similar discussions about sticky paint too. In car racing we used to have a class system that ranked based on model then modifications; X model with X number of modification points went into X Class. There may come a time where there are classes based on hardware not only skill level. I like the idea about giving everyone in the competition the same kendama to be used for the contest. We've been thinking about doing that in a future competition; The TK16 Invitational or something like that maybe.
I actually think that their should be different classes allowed based off of hand size. You should be allowed to use a kendama that fits your hand but not one that would create an unfair advantage. For example, if you are like 5 feet tall with a six inch hand you shouldnt be allowed to use a Viking but if you are like 6'8" with a ten inch hand then I think that should be allowed. The reason I believe this is because for someone so large having to use a smaller kendama could be a disadvantage because they can not grip the ken in the same way that a smaller person can grip a smaller ken. Thoughts?
I think anyone should be able to decide what kendama they want to compete with and they feel more comfortable with. I feel like JKAs are the most legit to compete with but then seeing so many people winning with the KROM Slaydawg lately definitely means something. That said, the size of the Slaydawg, GT-KA and GT-BH are super similar and are for sure making kendama progress.
@Sir Spike yes. The craft plus is accepted and it is 5% larger than traditional. GT-KA is 4%. BH is beefier. Slaydawg has been in plenty of comps already. Any promod will fit, otherwise the company would potentially loose sales from slayers not being able to use it in competition settings.