Important Discussion about Women & the Community

Hi all!

So generally, the hobby of kendama and the community around it has been such a positive, wonderful thing to have come into my life. There are so many people that I would have never met, or befriended if it weren’t for kendama. I wouldn’t have been able to travel as much as I have, or forged as many genuine connections. I wouldn’t have some of the instrumental people that I have in my life – people who I now can’t imagine not being a part of my life. That’s how crazy influential and wonderful this little wooden skill toy has been for me, and I’m sure for so many others.

But of course, as with anything, I’ve seen little things here and there in this community that have bothered me. That sort of thing is inevitable. I must say, as of late, I’m seeing more of these specific things happen with no one really speaking out about it, that I felt really compelled to mention it, or at least bring it up as a discussion point.

As kendama is still a very male dominated hobby, it totally makes sense. And I also understand that many of these things might not be done with negative/hurtful intention. But I have noticed that there is a tendency that we still have as a community, to sexualize or objectify women, and I really do believe we can do better. I’m not in the position nor do I have the knowledge to really speak out for anyone else, but I can imagine many of the women in this community have definitely had their fair share of weird, creepy, harmful, or straight up harassing messages, dms, comments, etc. I’m not a stranger to some of these things myself. But beyond that, I’ve also seen some strange marketing choices – many at a much more toned down level, but some more obvious, such as the recent flyer advertising the OSS jam in LA this past week. I’m sure that plenty of people have seen this particular flyer I’m referring to – it was posted by multiple people, and this event involved many pro players, a number of our larger companies, etc.

I’m not interested in pointing fingers at one source when I refer to these issues, or even at this specific event. I’ve already met and had wonderful experiences with the large majority of the people running and attending it. I just felt that this poster in particular is a good example of the sort of thing that discourages me greatly as a woman in general, in addition to being a member of this community.

Since seeing that poster, it has been pointed out that it is in fact a picture of a man and not a woman. But does that make it any less discouraging when it’s clearly aimed to mimic similar imagery that we’re constantly bombarded with in our popular culture that does in fact, sexually objectify women? I’m very proud to be a woman in this community – I’m constantly seeing more and more women play, slay, progress, and land top level tricks. So is the marketing aspect of an event, company sales, or whatever else really worth the negativity that sort of imagery bring to women, when there are so many amazing female players that can help market or bring attention to something in a much more positive and uplifting manner?

I want to reiterate that I’ve had so many great experiences because of my time in kendama – 3 fantastic years of great experiences. But I do have the benefit of those largely positive moments to off balance the more discouraging or negative things that I see, that would otherwise make me not want to involve myself as much, or even play. I hate the idea that someone else who is newer and doesn’t have that benefit would give up on being a part of this very special community and hobby due to a couple of problematic/ poorly thought out ads, or random anonymous harassment. I’ve also recently had a personal experience with blatant sexual harassment at a kendama event (Yes - by another dama player) that I won’t, and am unwilling to specifically detail out. I can tell you that though it was fairly minor, it was still pretty traumatizing to happen in a space and community that usually feels so safe. So please just know that if you all think that this sort of thing is meant to be harmless, remember that these issues are very real for many women – even in our little kendama bubble. The number of women who are speaking out about it within entertainment, and various other industries should give everyone a clearer picture of how common it actually is.

So TLDR; What I’m getting at is that I really hope everyone takes the time to read this out and just give it the courtesy of thought. This goes out the community as a whole – I’m not here to vilify, police, or regulate. I just want everyone to take a moment to think about the larger issues at hand, and be more aware of these things so that we can expand, and grow our community in a positive and inspiring way. A way that both men, and women can relate to and feel good about equally.

Thank you all and much love dama fam!
Jenny

 

@goenKendama this might need to be in Non Dama Drama

 

Did you read it though? I think it's extremely relevant to kendama - I'm not sure why it needs to be filed into the non dama section when it involves the things that happen in this community to kendama players, and it involves the way that kendama events and merchandise is marketed or handled.

 

@xplodit why do you care where this is posted?

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Trying to help

 

You’re totally right. I skimmed and thought it was a #metoo thing. Bummer you had to deal with a creep. Goes to show you pervs are everywhere.

 

I respectfully disagree with the perspective that a naked guy’s butt is objectifying women however. I feel like that reaction is contrived from a desire to be offended.

 

Kendama is a wooden toy. In and of itself it does not have any morals. You can be the shittiest person in the world and still play kendama. Together as the kendama comunity, we get to decide what gets mainstream attention and what remains on the fringes. I personally don't have any issues with the OSS poster, but the fact that it makes @Jenny Cho feel uncomfortable leads me to question it. I am sure that her feelings represent those of at least some other women in the kendama comunity. Kendama is definitely male dominated. And I think we need to start asking why that is. It could be because of some primitive reason like "girls like dolls, boys like kendamas." Or it could be something else. I would like to see everyone welcomed equally into the kendama community regardless of gender. If it means I have to dial back the dick jokes, I'm fine with that.

 

Glad that this thread was made, The sexualization of Kendama is something I'm not a fan of as a male. I've noticed it grow a bit more as time goes on and kendama gets more popular. It's an unnecessary thing to the community. I was just discussing it with my SO the other day, whom while not a dama player thinks it's a bit silly to see "Sex Sells" in the industry of toys of any kind. While I was unaware of the OSS Jam picture, the conversation started because of a female player. That has a link to a company that has used that market strategy in the past and has only since kind of amped it up. I'm all for supporting dama players of any gender or identity, just do it tastefully.

I really saw the internet show its face when Bishoff became a pro for KUSA and her feed had some really rude or terrible comments either about her looks or skills. Even if they aren't saying anything bad or that can be seen as such there is a weird underlying "oh if i cheer on this female dama player then I will get laid" attitude at times that only applies to those with "looks".

I feel incredibly sorry for you @Jenny Cho that you had to have even the slightest inkling of that. This is a toy, it is for everyone and the only focus should be to spread awareness and positivity in the best manner possible and IMO "Sex Sells" has no place and either stimulates this kind of attitude in the male players that are less in tune with their female counterparts or gives off a gross vibe to those that are aware of that is whats happening

 

I really just want to enjoy this amazing and purely entertaining toy. It’s my meditation, artistic expression, and discipline. A wooden ball, stick, and cups, that’s all that this is. Any marketing strategies or statements, actions, associations, etc made regarding this toy have fundamentally nothing to do with it. You can resent marketing as a whole, but you can’t blame marketers for using psychological tools to get you cognitively engaged in their message. I wouldn’t ever want anyone to be excluded from kendama based on sex, culture, or anything, and there should be a safe and accepting environment for everyone. However being offended every time you hear a dick joke seems like a very volatile and reactive way to go about your life in society. It’s hard to express exactly how I feel without seeming insensitive, but you should understand that society is in transition from a judgmental paradigm to an open and accepting one. It will take some time and understanding on all fronts, but being offended every time somebody distastefully addresses sex will not advance the cause. The lack of empathy can be combatted with understanding and education, not anger and contempt. I try to be compassionate to all people including women and the struggles they face. I hope that no woman ever has to feel threatened or left out regarding kendama or the community ever.

 

That's a double standard. Just because there are less female players than male shouldn't mean anything then. Where are the ads with guys with ripped abs playing kendama? If the marketing works one way then it will work the other and to actively choose to not represent that side of the community in the same fashion will only close the circle on a customer base. If I were a female, that message would be portrayed as "oh, another boys toy"

That's the thing, there is a time and place for everything. In a group of women in children, "dick jokes" should be accepted? It's not about the one being offended having empathy. It's about having respect for the people around you. So yeah, you can't express how you feel always because if thats how someone acts in a public setting then they have a lack of respect and empathy for those around them. If that's how it is in their circle then keep it there. A public jam session isn't that place though. It's a place to connect with others who share the hobby and possibly spread the joy kendama brings to passerbys Society is in a slow transition of acceptance for different lifestyles and thats great, but that only comes from those being offended or put down speaking up for themselves and having to say "I'M A HUMAN TOO!"

 

Have read this at FKC as well... as much as i don't want to speak about it at fkc, cause some could be total deuches.

Honestly, this is what really worries me & could possibly stir up something like what could've happened in kenco. Now i don't know why OSS(or whoever made that poster) thought of making this. Besides being male dominated, the kendama community is also heavilly influenced in street culture & with that comes some reference which i don't want to say but let's not hope it won't comepletely lead to that.

But what bothers me most is that no one from the event thought of this through. As much as the demographic of the community revolves from some number of kids till most of teens, atleast they should have considered that. Now this thirst trap of a promo, i say "hmpf, looks like they never thought this through"

Now as for the sexist part of the poster. Now, some could say that "oh that's creative" & whatsoever (put it with a grain of salt), but there are more ways to portray both a woman & kendama respectively withouth giving an idea of it being sexist. If they wanna put a sexy lady in a poster holding a kendama, then so be it, BUT keep in mind this is not playboy mag isht & kendama has a younger audience... So why not a cute/sexy/beautiful/whatever of an adjective you can give to a lady holding a kendama without being so showy. Like there are alot ways they could present a kendama, why the hell do that???

Anyways, that's what i think. Now this end note mighty be cheezy & all but i'll take a few worlds from pewdiepie saying "RESPECT WAMEN (Women)" be nice guys & stay awesome

 

Totally am receptive to everyone's viewpoints on this.

Believe it or not, being the OP of someone who is posting a pro-female stance that defends the idea that this sort of imagery can be problematic, offensive to women, etc, doesn't mean I object to dick jokes lol. I'm not here to get offended at everything, to slap down anyone's fun, or be riled up angrily against anyone who has a differing view on this.

Of course when it comes to kendama, I have my own stance on why the image I refer to offends me, and possibly other people who share my viewpoints and perspective. Obviously this is a community that is filled with lots of kids, older folks, women, people of different cultures, etc. I enjoy that inclusive aspect of it, and don't feel that this type of imagery is necessary to promote this sport as these things can make people feel uncomfortable, turn people off, or make certain groups of people feel excluded - for sure.

And while I realize that my opinion to some might make me come off as some sort of controlling prude, I have no problem with sex, alcohol, pot or other drugs, partying, whatever. Just don't really feel like those things are related to kendama at all. And I'm not going to lie - I'll be open about the fact that I'm not exactly pleased that this is the direction that some kendama companies and pros are starting lean towards.
But all of that ^ is a completely separate subject that sparks a different and larger discussion that we can have some other time.

When it comes to the OSS flyer - I didn't like it. I'm sorry. I know that some people did and thought it was cool, interesting, sexy - whatever. I personally thought it was distasteful and not exactly the most respectful image for women given the suggestive placement of the kendama. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions personally when it comes the flyer in question. But being that there are so many women players in this community who completely slay, I'm not sure why this image promoting a kendama event had to be one that makes the statement that when it comes kendama and women, that women are again, just a sex object.

It's just one example. I know that the KROMies are great guys. I did actually post my objections to this flyer on Bonz's post on IG, which might have been a bit unfair seeing that there were multiple people involved in the creation and promotion of this flyer. He wasn't the only pro to be at this event, KROM wasn't the only company behind this event. I don't want to attack them, or anyone in particular. I don't have a problem with these OSS jams happening - I might have a different opinion about OSS, No Jumper, and that whole image being connected to kendama than many others in this community who love these jams, but I'm not saying that we shouldn't let these jams happen. If that's the vibe people dig, that's completely fine for the people who dig it to celebrate it.

I just felt like this poster in particular was one good example of the patterns that I've seen in kendama before. It's not just the single poster, or single event. I've personally experienced some disturbing things being a woman in this male dominated community, and know that many other women have experienced those same things - and to a greater degree. I know that I can just shake it off, not say anything, and let everyone be happy jolly, and have their good times. But I'm not sure why it's my job, and the job of other women who object to this sort of thing happening in our shared community to silence ourselves just to let everyone else have their fun. Can't we all agree that might not exactly be fair?

Because I've been quiet this whole time anyway. I've had so many good experiences with kendama over the last 3 years that have been so largely positive, that I've brushed all of these negative aspects off. So have many of my fellow women players. If we didn't, and actually bristled up and became outrageously offended every time we saw or heard something we didn't like, I honestly don't think there'd be many women players left in this community at all. LOL.
^I know that some of you fellows might think I'm exaggerating, but I actually believe in this statement wholeheartedly, and think that if that's the case, that's kind of a sad thing that we should maybe try and better.

I'm glad that it was addressed above with the example of Haley. That's one that actually breaks my heart because she's such an inspiration for me and so many other women players, as someone who puts out a positive energy, organizes so many things that uplift and give women in this community more visibility, etc. I can't stand to see great people like her objectified, and I definitely have seen it in comments, or have heard some off putting things being said in person. I get that she's a good looking girl - I mean, I'll say that same thing about so many of the other lady slayers in our community. But maybe we can also acknowledge that these women should be recognized for their skill and positive community impact beyond just the outer surface in the same way that I feel the guys almost always are. Again, this is another longer topic of conversation, but I do hope that everyone can recognize that women in this community are just not really treated that way as often, and that's another aspect of this conversation that I'm putting out there as food for thought.

Thank you everyone for contributing to this thread, even if you disagree with me, or don't like what I have to say. I get that it's uncomfortable for everyone for this topic to be brought up because it's an emotional and difficult one. But that's actually the reason why I think it should be put out there for everyone to see, and maybe not kept only to the people who have to directly deal with these issues.

 

I keep seeing shades of this in other postings... As a fan of their damas and edits I'm really curious to know what you're referring to here... Without outing anyone, can you give the gist of "what happened at KenCo?"

Also huge credit to everyone speaking up for gender equality in this forum!

 

I’d love to know what happened at KenCo too.

 

Same here, I got into kendama when the #RipKenCo sale was ongoing. I'm curious as hell too.

 

Here is a link to an old forum summarizing this all up
https://www.downspike.com/threads/the-co.395/

 

Thanks man!

 

Can someone link the oss flyer?