Hello everyone! I know we all share a common passion, but I have been seeing so many new companies on the rise that don't seem to be improving the art of kendama. It's as if they only want the profit that comes from selling these skill toys. The way I know this is because they all carry the same bland "rubber" painted kendamas that are quite mediocre. This got me wondering if the business world around our craft is worth investing into. I just know that if I were to ever create a company, it would be out of good intention to overall innovate the style and constantly bring new flavor to the kendama scene. Any feedback on this is greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Hey Joseph, are you talking about the companies that are mass producing Kendama's in a similar style to Kaleb Kendama? If so, i believe these companies are definitely in it for profit, it seems they all use the same production company for their products too. However NEW small, innovative, limited run companies that are putting out beautiful and original products are a huge part of Kendama and make it all that little bit great-er.
I think you most def have to do it for the passion of it. The thing is, the big companies like KUSA and Sweets already have some really great factory made kendamas, that most of the time compares favourably to the smaller brands "standard" stuff. Sweets have had Homegrown for quite some time, and KUSA just brought Craft to the table, which also mean that they are kinda "sitting" on a lot of premium stuff as well. Then you got the companies like Grain Theory that make the super high-end stuff and companies like Terra that does a lot of specialty and handturned stuff. On top of all of that all of these companies are super good at branding them selves (I personally think KROM does an AWESOME job on that level) and a lot of the same people are involved in multiple companies like Matthew Rice who does DWI, Terra and GT at the same time. Jake Wiens is also involved in both GT and KUSA and he does a lot of event stuff too, which helps him brand his companies. A lot of these guys are friends, and friends take care of each other and helps each other out. They put a lot of work into their companies, and care about it because it is a business as well as a passion - which is super cool. So basically it's a question about branding and networking I think. A lot of small companies are making perfectly good kendamas for a great price (which is the smaller "upperhand" that they might have), but they don't really stand out. You have to make people want to represent your brand while they are out there jamming, and there are obviously different ways to do this. I am personally really interested in PNW kendama, cause the new "kotodama" looks aaaaaawesome, and they have a couple of old and newer Ex-Co players who I have mad respect for. Passion is important, but I think you have to think about it as a business as well to get a foot in the door now a days. That said I am just some kendama player, and I don't know a lot about this stuff. This is just how I think it probably works.
Woah! You're definitely touching a lot of ground on how everything works and that's great, but I think we should wait until someone such as Alex Smith or any other owner of a kendama brand tells us the ways of the industry. Ya know? Since we probably don't know as much as they do. Thank you for such a thoughtful response to my thread.
It's definitely profitable if you are able to support your business through to visibility. Forums like DownSpike and the Facebook Kendama Community make it a bit easier but honestly, unless you're 20 customs a month on limited run jammers you're "in it for the money". As far as true innovations are concerned that is entirely up to beholder or whoever the design was paid to create.
I mean, @bonerkid was pretty on point there, there are definitely brands that are 'core' to the industry and are responsible for pushing it to the level it is now. I think its important to respect that, I mean kendama wouldn't be where it is today without some of the talented people that are involved in the industry. Want to see it push and become even better? Support those people, because that is their dream: to promote kendama and create an awesome community around it. There are always going to be people who are just in it for a quick buck or whatever, but they generally won't last. I started playing a little more than 7 years ago, and back then there were like 6 companies to choose from, and the majority of them were JKA manufacturers. Now there are... who the hell knows how many companies/brands! The ones that push and support the community best are still around though. They're worth being stoked on.
Happy to be here! i accidentally took a little break from kendama.. but now im back, and playing more than ever. Feels great!
We’ve been doing the kendama thing in conjunction with our ramen shop for nearly five years now. We got into it for the same reasons that we got into the restaurant biz, it’s something we care about and have fun doing. I’m kind of talking to myself here as well since I tend to need a reminder now and again that this is, in fact, a business for us too. Business is primarily about making money and if it doesn’t then it fails; seems straight forward but it isn’t as easy as it might appear. Some of the kendama companies out there probably did make strictly business decisions about getting into kendama. The same can be said about many industries and products. Investing in something that could be a successful business sort of makes sense doesn’t it? The passion these people might have may not be about kendama but rather about providing for their families, buying a new car, taking a dream vacation, or even getting married. It’s great to have passion and it can definitely give you strength when things are tough or inspire you to the next level but it can also blind you to the realities of business if you let it. An example would be when you ignore warning signs that you might not normally miss if you were thinking only of business. At the end of the day passion alone doesn’t pay the bills. It seems some people believe straight business thinking is bad and passion is the only way. There are business people out there that think pretty much the reverse; that passion only confuses things. There’s no real reason that both can’t exist, no rancor required. They’re just different ways to chase their own goals. There was one particular conversation with a successful businessman from which some of the comments above stem. There were other times and other people covering similar topics but this talk really sticks in my brain. He was passionate about being successful and making money. He thought that kendama, through me, looked like it might be a good way to make some money. Since he saw that I was passionate about kendama, a main selling point for him, he wanted to become partners. At first it seemed like it would be a good thing but the more we talked the more I felt like we weren’t really on the same page. In the end, I declined. Was it a good business decision, I couldn’t say but it’s the way I felt about it at the time. I do know that my business professors would be rolling their eyes at some of the “business” decisions I’ve made over the years but then that’s the way it was when I took their classes too. For my own way of thinking, ideally it would be great to have a team that had a solid business person/department put into the mix of passionate kendama people. As long as both sides understood and respected their different perspectives it would be a killer team; everyone could make a living while promoting kendama and living the life. TL;DR My two cents: you need passion and good business practices to be successful and enjoy what you do; a fair amount of luck isn’t a bad thing either. This also kind of fits with one of my favorite quotes: Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.
@goenKendama well said! In niche communities like kendama, I have seen the 'passion vs business' debate happen before. Like you said, I don't think it has to be one or the other, and certainly when both motivators are at play the best results may be seen. Interestingly, I've watched this debate in the yoyo world, and seen forum debates go into great detail about a manufacturer's costs, decisions, and profits. With the One Drop manufacturing shop being such a centralizing force in the yoyo world, a great number of people know what the costs to manufacture a yoyo are, and so when a new product hits the market, its price point often comes under intense scrutiny from the masses. I've seen companies and individuals torn apart for wanting to make even small profits, often to the tune of "you're a businessman that doesn't care about the community!". I think this sort of debate is dangerous, as it turns the community's focus in the wrong direction. There is nothing wrong with a business or individual making profit, in fact it is essential to keeping the niche alive. Say what you will about your favourite start-up brand, if the 'big' kendama companies disappeared, the game as a whole would take a massive hit in its ability to reach and inspire new players. I think that as a consumer, you are entitled to an understanding of where your money is going, and you should be critical in your spending decisions. Its just important to remember that passion alone won't be as effective in growing and maintaining the community as passion + business skills.
Super interesting discussion! It's definitely an astute observation. I generally agree with Alex - there are certainly companies in it for the profit, but the ones who focus on making a quick buck will never last against companies who push to progress the game, and put forth genuine passion. As far as my business observation for the kendama market goes though, I would say that kendama is becoming a pretty flooded market, in a world where its hype and spread is starting to die down. Is it smart to start a new company - say now? Probably not. I think success depends on timing, but also for kendama specifically, the strength of your branding, the involvement and interest of your customer base, and what new product you have to offer to the table. Kendama is a pretty straight forward skilltoy to manufacture at its core, and sometimes people make the mistake of thinking to simply go to one of the mass market Chinese factories to make a standard dama, and resell it for profit - like you have observed yourself. While it's true that KenUSA and Sweets who both seem extremely successful, do have kendamas that are manufactured overseas, they also have damas that are manufactured with more care in the states as premium lines. Even with their cheaper damas, they put a little extra something into it. Sweets always has multiple paint types for the tama that each have a different finish and are uniquely painted by them. KenUSA is brilliant at marketing and puts forward a concept like "Kaizen" - brands and markets it as a way of life or concept, that is theirs. Both companies are pushing the shapes of their damas around for innovation and higher playability. Both are constantly dropping new product offerings that are different than before. Also, it's important to note that companies like the two above mentioned and some of the other more notable and famous brands have an extremely loyal customer fan base, and highly respected and loved sponsored players who work to market and represent their brand. This is a hobby that is so niche, you need that loyalty and strong affiliation to make your brand something that is desireable to others. Otherwise, as non-kendama player, who wants to purchase one for my kid - why wouldn't I just buy the Duncan or Toysmith or Yomega I see at Target? Yet those aren't the brands that are known and collected within this community, right? It's the love of this community that you need to capture in order to sell well, and that takes people who are community-oriented and known, to promote and run and market it. So in short, if you have a passion and love for something, if you pursue it strongly, you can make something wonderful happen. If you decide to make dama a business, plan to bring your brand to the kendama family, not the other way around - and you could find success. Remember that it's this community that makes any profit happen at all, and do your best to cater to it and earn the love and respect of the players. But - from a realistic standpoint, expect to run up against hardship from a business point too. In short, I don't feel that kendama as a business venture is particularly sound or profitable given the niche interest group, the successful profits based purely on customer loyalty, the big brands already set in place, the lowered interest in the states, and the flooded market. Businesses are hard - you always lose more money than you gain in the beginning, even if you think you're selling well. As a cynical adult, I would say to pursue it if you're very confident you'll have something new to bring that no one else has brought before. But also I'd highly advise anyone starting up that they should probably not abandon their primary job or source of income before making kendama their first. Food for thought.