my fav part of that post is the fake sketchy guy trying to give us all candy from his white van. O woops I meant kenco damas, my bad.
Thank you for the post Jenny. I owe a more thoughtul response later, at a time when I'm not on mobile. But in the meantime I would say I am proud of how this community, the DOWNSPIKE community, can engage in thoughtful discussion on difficult topics. I am proud to see all of these responses and proud to see that this community can still respectfully agree/disagree without falling into name calling, vitriol, and toxic hate that is spewed on FKC and everywhere else pretty much these days. also totally fine that this lives in the sesh.
Sending love, support, and respect to Jenny for striking this conversation!!! And respect to the people who are actively engaging with the topic.
I am betting Jenny did not enjoy Kendama Is A Gang Edit 2, like I did. I think overall what OSS is doing for kendama is great, even though I don't necessarily agree many of those lifestyle choices. Political correctness has really ruined a lot back home.
That poster is indeed a very inappropriate image. How will kids ask their moms to take them to this jam now? lol
I don’t think it’s hard to understand how/why using this as a public ad would make a female player uncomfortable. Its a bummer that’s our reality, but it’s cool to see the discussion it’s prompted, with people on all sides voicing their opinions. That’s how we grow and progress. Frankly, this sorta advertising is grade-A stuff... if your main goal is to have horny teenage boys mash the like button. Feels like a cheap trick, but really that’s what all of the OSS stuff feels like to me. It’s like a car crash you can’t stop watching... I get why people like it, but it’s not really my vibe. I wonder who shot the photo and put the ad together? Doesn’t seem like something Bonz would do himself, yet the actual Krom account didn’t ever post the flyer. I guess maybe they ‘knew better’? At the end of the day, if a brand wants to market themselves in a certain way, they’ll gain/lose followers accordingly. As a potential customer, it’s on everyone in here to put your money where your mouth is, and maybe even run your mouth a bit if you really love/hate what you’re seeing. Social media gives businesses the ability to reach huge audiences easily, but also gives the audience the ability to punch back.
Never got to see Kendama is A Gang Edit 2 so I have no comment on that till I do see it. But I'd imagine if it's filled with a lot of this sort of similar content, then no, it's likely I won't enjoy it much. I get that everyone has a different perspective and everyone can like different things. But you'd be right in making the assumption based on my reaction to this flyer and my responses to various comments here and there on social media that I'm not personally a fan of the vibe that OSS has brought into kendama. While I can absolutely appreciate that they've brought a certain large amount of visibility to the toy, and helped get many more adults into it (which is also a great thing), I do have concerns about the image that this direction is pushing kendama towards. I am obviously not shy about speaking up when it comes to things that impact young kids, and women, because I (and I know many others) feel strongly about these things. (Disclaimer: I've been to the first OSS jam and had a fantastic time there - I'm not necessarily saying everyone who goes to these jams or who runs these events are "the bad guy". I just witnessed things at the first jam, and have heard/seen things since that has caused me to have the opinion I do.) While I agree it's not good to take being PC to an extreme level where everyone is afraid to make jokes, be themselves, or have a good time, obviously there is historical context as to why things can be perceived as harmful or offensive, and I don't think it's good to over trivialize these things either. Always about a healthy balance!
To Alex's point, I agree, this was grade A marketing. It made a controversy (check), it got teenage boys' attention (check) and we're all talking about it (check). But yeah, choices a brand makes has ramifications, and that's OK, that's part of how a free market works. I personally have NOTHING in common with any of the OSS guys, and I'm too old to "get it". I sympathize with Jenny's concerns. I personally I wouldn't run the poster, but if you're trying to separate yourself from a kids toy to more of a lifestyle brand, I think they're well within their right to do that so long as the model was treated with respect and professionalism. There are certain standards that need to be upheld, but whether it's PG-13, PG, or G is up to the company. Seems like there is enough space in the industry for there to be a "bad boy" kendama company, a "just for kids" kendama company, an artsy company, etc. All of them should respect women and avoid sexism, but some of them might elect to use sex appeal to grab attention. As for the photo, it was taken back in 2016, or at least that's the first time I saw it. It's not bonz's ass
I agree with the aspect of the lifestyle brand, good way of putting it. I think that KROM is definitely trying to go down that direction. If you have someone like Bonz on your team, I don't think you can really be a "just for kids" company. I personally don't think kendama is a kid's toy, I think its something that we should strive to get kids into (as opposed to video games and smart phones), but I don't think its exclusively for kids (this is somewhat obvious though since a lot of users on here aren't kids). Also, I think the whole reason that this flyer was ran was because the OSS jam was one of those jams for that kind of lifestyle. Its not for everybody, even though kendama is something that I think IS for everybody. I personally would not bring any little kids to that jam even though I myself would definitely have attended it. Overall, I agree with Jenny's original post. The community needs to be a place for everyone to feel safe, regardless of who you are.
@Jenny Cho , I think you’ve done a really great job bringing something up that is quite serious (IMO) in a very tactful, respectful and real way. I’m really glad you did it, and I hope you’ll forgive me for making this somewhat selfish post. The truth is, I’ve been thinking about making a post like this (or making a video) for a long time now, probably over 9 months. But I’ve been afraid to let it stand on its own so I’m using this thread as cover. Sorry for that. This post will probably offend a few people or at least make them not like me. I’m okay with that. I’m going to voice a lot of opinions here and you’re entitled to yours as well. I also want everyone to know that while it may seem like it, I’m not attacking or against any singular person or company, but I’m extremely disappointed and even upset with some of the choices that have been made and continue to be made. I do not want to make light of the specific ad in question or the sexualization of kendama, but I do believe it is a symptom of a greater problem that started awhile back and apparently continues to get worse. Namely, media, attention, and association of things with kendama that have NOTHING to do with kendama, and are in fact very inappropriate for the PRIMARY demographic of kendama, which is kids. Ask the big companies to tell you what their views demographic is on Youtube and they’ll tell you. They know who their demographic is. As some of you may know, I used to post kendama videos quite regularly, usually around 8-10 per month. One of my most popular ongoing monthly videos was “kendama news” where I would talk about what is going on in the community. I basically just talked about what I thought was cool, and what seemed to be a big deal or something people would want to know about. When OSS/No Jumper/Adam13 started to pop up, I was super conflicted. On the one hand, kendama was growing, more people and in different circles were hearing about it, and yeah that’s a big deal. But on the other hand, I did NOT feel right about sharing something that I truly believe is completely inappropriate for kids. I didn’t want to draw attention to it, because if some younger viewers had somehow missed it, then I will leading them there. And I’m not okay with that. I think a lot of the rhetoric, behavior, and overall vibe is just bad. Selfish, destructive, stupid, etc. And listen, I don’t care what you do or say in your private time or life, but when you’re a role model for kids and they look up to you, please don’t set such an example. And these people KNOW its bad, they KNOW its not appropriate for kids, and yet they do it anyway. That’s selfish, careless, and damaging. And it is damaging to the kendama “brand.” Despite what some people have said, I DON’T believe kendama is big enough for there to be an “adult” kendama company and a “kid” company. Guys, kendama is small. In the world we live in, in the internet of today, it is small. Maybe it will really explode at some point, but for now it is still small. And in a small ecosystem, there are often a few big players that everyone WILL know. Everyone’s heard of KUSA, Sweets, Krom, Bonzatron, etc. And I’m telling you, if my kids were old enough, I’d have a big problem with them wanting to get involved in “kendama culture” when such inappropriate things almost cannot be missed BECAUSE it is being perpetuated by big names that everyone knows. Anyone who thinks a kid’s parents would be okay with them watching and listening to a lot of this stuff is mistaken. It is irresponsible of big name pros and companies and it is simply not appropriate. Go do whatever you want to when the event is over, away from the kids and the cameras. Doesn’t bother me at all. So at the end of the day it comes down to this: I think kendama is a fantastic toy/practice that can be enjoyed by anyone and at any age. But to be so inclusive, you can’t be both “great for everyone” and ALSO have an “adult” side or branding at the same time. Because the “adult” branding is certainly not for everyone, but everyone’s going to end up seeing it and being exposed to it. And I just don’t want to be a part of that. Now, clearly this is simply my opinion. You are welcome to yours. If you want kendama to be an adult thing or whatever, that’s fine. I personally, however, will have a hard time participating and associating with it if thats the case. Things that are not appropriate or related to kendama are being encouraged by the most visible people out there…and that sucks. And before someone says it, you can’t “fight back” so to speak with good things. If I’m all positive and don’t mention the other stuff I’ll be helping out and out-weighing the bad stuff right? Nope. The other stuff is still there. And I don’t want to associated with it. If there is already shit in the soup, adding a bunch more chicken and veggies may mask some of the flavor, but I still won’t voluntarily drink it. And if you’re curious what ingredient OSS adds to the kendama soup, read the name. Okay, so now that everyone is offended (or if anyone actually reads all this)…. Will I stop playing kendama? No, I love kendama. Kendama is so rad. Will I stop making videos for kendama? Not sure, maybe. I've been making a few and perhaps I'll make more from time to time. Is all this stuff why I suddenly stopped making kendama videos way back in June? Yes it is. Am I very motivated to contribute to the “kendama culture” moving forward given the current state? No not really, and that makes me sad. (As a side note, I’ll probably regret posting this later. Haha. Second, I don’t really have issue with guys like Kenderson because they are their own deal. They can do their thing and that’s whatever. They are not associated with a big brand or have a pro on their “team” or whatever. In other words, they are not actively influencing and catering to children. Anyway, just thought I’d mention that too…)
Good to hear fron you Ben. Well articulated thoughts, I agree with most of them and I don't think anyone on here will get offended. With regards to Kendama being primarily a kids toy, well... it sort of is. On one hand, it's ball in a cup. And lots of kids play. On the other hand though it did originate as a drinking game. Most of our traffic on DS is in the 18-25 demo. The youngest kids don't even know what a forum is! Realistically, I think the behaviors that kendama promotes (kaizen, repetition, focus) are net positives. Especially when you consider the alternative is a cell phone or video games. Could kids be listening to educational PBS podcasts and playing Civilization? maybe, but they're more likely using those devices to listen to trippie redd and play GTA or whatever theyre into these days. I think the most important thing is to raise kids to be well-formed, so they can police their own influences from an increasingly early age.
Good to hear from you, @Ben Lowe. I've actually previously suspected this was why you've backed off. I've always been a fan of your work, but to simply bail on your involvement in the community because you disagree with what others are doing is weak. You came out of nowhere, earned the respect of an entire community within a couple months, and then just ghosted everyone. I guess I understand it from the point of you being a father (I'm actually expecting my first next month!), why you are disappointed in Sweets involvement and promotion of OSS. Maybe even at KUSA for awarding their squal goals competition to Kenderson too, but at the end of the day they're still spreading the love of kendama. Kendama's positive influences greatly outweighs any of it's negatives stemming from players within the community and their effect on kendama culture. Do you feel the same about, let's say for the sake of discussion, skateboarding and it's culture?
Thanks. It may look weak, but following my conscience is anything but. Sorry, but I have to be true to myself, which ironically was the response given by the many I approached privately about these issues. They had to be "true to themselves." And that's fine. Just don't count me part of it. I'm just a guy, not a pro or a company. I can't steer the culture, so if it doesn't fit with me anymore, it makes the most sense for me to quietly back down. That's what I tried to do. Do you think if I had made a big fuss and said all these things that it would be helpful to anyone? I don't. So that's why I've waited so long to say anything. If you watched my videos, I always did them for myself. I'm super glad that others benefited and enjoyed them, but I made them for me. I did enjoy providing some value to others, it was cool. But I always walked away happy with my work and proud of it. I can't keep doing it if I'm not proud of it. Hence no more news videos. I know many feel this way. That's fine but I don't agree. The negatives spoil the whole. I guess I'm not one for compromise in certain things. I know that's not PC, but again I have to be true with myself. I can't operate with a clear conscience to promote something I can't associate with. I have no problem with skate culture, but I would not identify with it or promote it. That's why the kendama thing sucks. Because I had no idea the culture would end up veering in the direction it has. If I had known, would I have done the year's worth of videos that I did? I'm honestly not sure....dark thought I know, but I've taken a LONG time to really think this over and I'm pretty firm on where I've landed. Like I said, I don't hold anything against certain individuals and companies, but I think their actions are irresponsible. And I don't know how to fit into the current culture anymore. I think kendama is great, but I can't afford to pour my time and energy into it anymore. The rewards just don't add up for me now, and I don't feel that good about it. So I'll make some vids here and there, but I think I've given plenty to the community.
Barbie originated from a hooker doll. But that doesn't mean it is appropriate for little girls to be able to buy a barbie with a stripper pole. DS members are a special nerdy crew haha. Certainly not representative of the main kendama demo I don't think. Maybe I'm wrong. Sweets pros go on special visits to where??? Oh yeah, elementary schools... (They would then NEVER post vlogs highlighting smoking a weed kendama and dropping f-bombs every other word....right???) Love you @Cheech_Sander , I'll try to stop being a dick now...
Ben, I don't agree with the above quote. What would be inappropriate about a barbie on a stripper pole? There are millions of women around the world who are empowered by their pole dancing as an art-form. I don't think there's anything wrong with a child wanting to be a pole dancer just like there is nothing wrong with children wanting to be a ballet dancer. Be the change, strippers and pole dancers aren't any less of a person because of their profession. I do agree with your comments on inappropriate advertising towards kids. There's a reason we have laws around marketing to people in certain demographics e.g. under 13.
OSS doesn’t try and have a clean and family-friendly image. I’m a BMXer and the OSS guys thrive from controversy. I don’t think this poster is at all representative of the Kendama community. Just because Adam 22 is an immature child doesn’t mean all Kendama thrives from this objectivity of women. Fyi, he dates a pornstar so of course he isn’t too worried about how women are viewed in the real world. But on the other hand, there had to be a woman who was okay with having her body objectified to pose for this picture, so is the woman at fault for propagating the objectivity? Please don’t get me wrong, I think it’s bad to have this image alongside a toy that kids play with And love, but OSS is know for controversy. This isnt representative of the whole kendama community. HBish is always involved with all girls comps and jams and I see as many girls ripping gnarly tricks as guys.