Whatup Downspike! The Sweets crew has invited me to be one of the head judges for the MKO open division this year, and as part of our preparation we've decided to make a thread where you can ask any questions about the contest. In the last few years I've had the honour of helping judge both the open and freestyle events at the MKO, and I'm stoked to help out again this year. Have a question about a specific trick? About the format of the contest? Something else? Drop it here, and I'll do my best to answer My understanding is that Alex Hirota and Willy Penniman will be the other main open judges, but I'm not sure if they're on here (I can't find their usernames if they are..). Oh, and @CodyGriz I'm hoping you can take a peek at this too, you might be able to better answer some questions regarding the event organization
As an opener: My goal is a judge is to keep things legit, and to help keep the contest rolling smoothly. If you catch me in the hotel and we play a game of DAMA, there are some things I'll happily let slide, which would simply not count on stage. The MKO is (in my opinion) second only to KWC, so as a judge I find it my duty to ensure the highest level of clean and controlled play is the standard all competitors are adhering to. Some basic rules: - Obviously, if you thumb/hand a trick, that is an immediate miss! - Downspikes need to be downward. The spike must be pointed below horizontal as it enters the tama, otherwise thats a miss, no matter how elaborately you swoop your arm into a downspike motion afterwards - No string adjusts! If you get tangled, you have to deal with it, your other hand cannot be used to make any adjustments once you've started the trick - Insta-spike (insta-in) enders will earn you a miss. You must let the trick come to rest in the finish position* - Candle tricks: you can only be touching the spike. Finger on the cups is a miss! Note that this rule starts when the tama lands on the bottom cup, if you catch the ken funny but can adjust your grip before landing the tama on the bottom cup, thats okay (same as KWC rules) - Show respect to your opponent, keep yourself (and your dama) still while it is their turn. If I think of anything else, I'll edit this list to add it in. * Seriously! I called out Kengo Kawamura last year during one of the final rounds, and gave him a miss for this. I believe it was a trick that ended in 'airplane', and as soon as the spike entered the tama, he popped it out. From my perspective, the spike didn't fully enter the tama, it stuck when it was like 75% of the way there, and then he was already popping it off. He looked really surprised when I X'd the trick, but I think that rule is important. Consider situations where the tama only goes 50% of the way on, and then comes off (not on purpose). Is that a make? What % onto the spike qualifies as a make? How do you discern between popping it off on purpose, or by accident? So: Making the rule "the kendama needs to come to rest in the finished position" eliminates all of this grey area.
Good question, I actually was talking with Sweets earlier about a related question: In KWC, they made a rule that "if it says double, you have to do at least double", which means that you could do a triple, and it'd still count. The idea is, this makes the trick harder, so why not allow it? To be honest, I don't reeally like this rule, but after talking with Sweets we've decided to stick with it, due to situations like the one you've asked about. Similarly, it allows a competitor to start a lighthouse trick by doing pull up, or flip up to lighthouse (pull up spike vs swing spike, etc). So with that in mind, I think that no earth turn would be fine. I just followed up on this with Sweets to double check (I could see someone saying 'an earth turn is an essential part of the whirlwind'), if he has a differing opinion I'll post an update.
From the trick list thread: In both cases, either swing or pull up is fine, unless the trick name specifies otherwise (eg it says 'flip over the valley'). So either pull-up/swing-up is good, same with flip/flat over the valley.
Would it be safe to say that a number of these 'rules' can roll over to the Intermediate and Beginner ladders? Like doing a Spacewalk 1-turn In instead of a regular Spacewalk In as it says in the Intermediate trick list?
I'm not judging the lower categories, but I would expect many of the rules will carry over. For spacewalk in, my first reaction would be that a 1 turn wouldn't count, as 'spacewalk in' is a very well defined trick that doesn't include a 1turn (in fact, I would almost say it no-turn in is more difficult than a 1-turn in). I'll follow up with Sweets to be sure, don't take that as a final answer quite yet. @MattSweets
Honestly I am so excited to see all of the kendama players out there! I know you will make this a nice fair competition, and I love how amazing this community is. I am definitely not expecting myself to win by any means, but this will be a lot of fun! See you all there!
What’s up alex I seen sweets post on ig asking for judges, and I’d be glad to help out, so I put in an application. Just wondering when I will know if they need me or not, otherwise I will sign up for open. Also, whether I’m judging or not, I think it would be very beneficial to run some sort of operation to make sure all judges to abide by the same rules.(maybe a briefing before the contests, maybe an official rule book , maybe a quiz?) idk. I know there are plenty of controversial concepts for judging/competing (which I guess I’ll ask about some below) and I also think it’s very important to have judging be fair and equitable. Also, Where do you stand on these concepts? -blowing the string? -tossing the whole kendama up to adjust the string? -doing a trick (like a house flip or turnovers) to adjust string? -can you do a trick inward instead of regular if it’s not specified? I’m sure there are other grey areas and just to reiterate I think it would be very smart to get an official rule book and make sure all judges know it.
Would you be a presenter at the DS awards? (Follow up question: do you own a tux?) Can you tie a bow tie?
From FKC: “Can you do boosies (thumbslingers) instead of sara flips on trick number 2? as wyatt did in kwc15” “Boosies go the opposite way of a thumbslinger, they’re a little different. But anyway yeah I hope we can thumbslinger”
After the candle jug candle, can we rotate the candlestick with our fingers in order to attempt the stunt plane from a better spot? I assume no but just checking
Lighthouse - Insta - Insta - Insta - Trade Spike In the video Coop does a 1 turn tradespike, is a normal tradespike allowed?
Are the Sweets guys implementing anything to prevent sandbagging in the beginner's and intermediate ladders? This has been an unfortunate occurrence at several larger events my wife and I have been to.
Re: judge applications This would be a question for @CodyGriz or @MattSweets, I'm not sure when exactly they're deciding all of that. My understanding is that myself, Willy Penniman and Alex Hirota have been invited to be the open head judges. Anyone helping judge beginner or intermediate can still enter open, but you obviously can't judge and compete in the same category. Re: Judges being on the same page Thats part of the goal of this thread, really. To help iron out some details. As far as I know we'll have a meeting with all the judges before things start, I'm not sure when that will be exactly, but we'll make sure anyone who is helping out knows what the deal is. -blowing the string? My usual rule-of-thumb is that you can have a quick, discreet blow. If you're up there huffing and puffing on the dama, thats no good. I just talked to Sweets about this, and he agrees that a quick blow is allowed, and anything beyond that is the judge's discretion, with the understanding being that excessive blowing is not allowed. As a competitor, I'd say err on the side of caution if you're going for a second blow, and you can always ask the judge that is on stage in the moment if you are unsure. -tossing the whole kendama up to adjust the string? Generally, no. I'm alright with small finger adjustments, but definitely not entirely letting go of the kendama in the middle of a trick, just to adjust the string. -doing a trick (like a house flip or turnovers) to adjust string? The contest trick must be performed as specified, adding an extra 'something' in the middle of it would not be allowed (a flip, or whatever). -can you do a trick inward instead of regular if it’s not specified? I just talked to Sweets about this as well, and the answer is no. The tricks must be performed as specified/shown in the video. So a 'whirlwind' must be done regular way, while an 'inward whirlwind' must be done inward. If you are wondering about a specific trick in this regard, feel free to post a follow up question.
I'm down to help! That sounds fun No tux, and I'm pretty sure none of my suitjackets are straight black.. Given a little prep time, me and my friend youtube videos know how to do just about anything
Boosies are not allowed, because the ken spins the opposite direction compared to a whirlwind. If you watch the video, the bottom cup comes towards Coop. A boosie flip would see the bottom cup move away from him. Thumbslingers are also not allowed, it must be a proper kenflip. This would be okay, provided its a small adjustment, not spinning the ken around 360º+ in order to move the string around. I confirmed this with Sweets, and in our opinion it is a similar situation to a lighthouse adjustment: you're allowed to shuffle the tama around a little in your fingers, in order to align the ken properly for the next flip, or whatever. Just don't go overboard! Normal tradespike is not allowed, it must be a 1-turn trade spike. Please ignore the name of this trick for now, and follow how it is done in the video. Related: the name of this trick is slightly incorrect! (and there are a few others that are slightly off as well) I talked to Sweets about this yesterday, and today they've re-captioned a lot of tricks in the video, and written out a new text list. The updated video and list will be posted shortly, and include more concise naming. But in general, when in doubt defer to the video, and perform the trick as it is shown.
Question that was posted by Cam Herrero to Facebook: CAM: For hippie flip can it be either way or does it have to be inward ALEX: Alriiight Cam I'll answer you here <3 (but I'm copying it to DS) Tricks must be performed as specified/shown in the video. So the hippie flip must be 'inward' (like an inward lighthouse flip sorta spin). (Does anybody do them the not-inward way? That seems tough!)