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Are natties less profitable than painted kendamas?

Discussion in 'The Sesh' started by Emil Apostol, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Are natty kendamas a less financially viable product than painted kens?

    The thought came to me when I noticed that KROM does not have any natties in their main line offerings, not even a Natty POP (or, like the battlecry of Natty lovers everywhere, a Natty Slaydawg). Even among other companies, Natties in their stock are either completely non-existent, limited to premium offerings, or an odd blip in a sea of painted kendamas.

    I'm not disputing the playability of a good natty; I just find it unfortunate that (perhaps) because of the new trend of sticky paint, more companies tend to lean towards stocking these while limiting, or even outright not carrying, natty kendamas on sale.
     
    Feb 19, 2019
  2. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Flavor of the month syndrome. Companies are in business to stay in business so cater to the markets where they can make sales. KROM used to be known as one of "the" natty companies so was Sol; both have moved away from those roots. Since everyone is "stuck" on sticky paint currently that's where the R&D and new products migrate. (hard to find non-JKA but similarly sized kendama because of the monster cup preference too)

    When magnets become the new sticky then natties will likely make a resurgence. :rolleyes:
     
    Feb 20, 2019
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  3. Thomas Ishikawa

    Thomas Ishikawa Honed Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    I feel like companies like GT and KUSA glorified the natty game with their raw finished tamas. Sure it’s fun to break in but the ones from China have like either too smooth of a finish or some sort of polish to it where it just slides everywhere.
    I only pick up a natty in the summer and it’s probably gonna stay that way for a while.
    I think like @goenKendama mentioned, painted setup is definitely the cream of the crop when it comes to overall sales so companies are less convinced to buy them.
     
    Feb 20, 2019
    Emil Apostol likes this.
  4. Qonnor

    Qonnor Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I personally don't think there's anything wrong with sticky paint. That said, I think there are a lot of people out there who have never broken in a natty long enough to realize how honed they get. Like in many cases, as good if not better than a painted tama. I think for this reason people just don't buy natties as much.

    I would love if companies put out more natties or tried new finishing methods for the tamas. I've never played a "raw" tama but have always wanted to try one. I also think contests like Naked and Clean could help a lot with getting people hyped on giving them a try.
     
    Feb 20, 2019
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  5. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    A good middle (so to speak) are the clear coated natties (Cushion Clear Homegrowns, natty Satin/ET Analogs, KUSA Ghost silk, etc) or the Opposite Day Painted Cups from Sol. The aformentioned damas will break in similarly like their painted counterparts and the Sol Painted Cups still give you thay natty feel since the tama is untouched (aside from the tracking lines). Those seem to be very popular now, with Analog selling out nearly every wood option of their natty/satin Squabs and Sol always selling out of their Painted Cups (rubber cups are my favorite).
     
    Feb 20, 2019
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  6. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    Jan 4, 2017
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    Quite so! I think that these natties aren't really "natties" in the sense that it's just the raw wood tama. The Old KROM natty kendamas especially make me think that either the tamas were sanded to such a fine grit that it became almost polished, or that they come with some sort of varnish or wood finish applied on.
     
    Feb 20, 2019
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  7. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    I really hope Sol makes the opposite day kendamas a standard. Those were sick, but I can't cop them easily because international shipping.
     
    Feb 20, 2019
  8. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

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    Jan 4, 2017
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    Philippines
    That begs the question though; when will the "flavor of the month" syndrome wear off? I honestly can't see sticky paint going away for a while because the entire industry is currently founded on companies offering the stickiest paint possible.
     
    Feb 20, 2019
  9. KeeganS

    KeeganS DS Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Chad said they'll never do the old ones again. So the 3 released versions will never be made again by them. I don't think it will ever be their new standard, but there may be a new version every Opposite Day.
     
    Feb 20, 2019
  10. Cheech_Sander

    Cheech_Sander Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I would think that natties would be more profitable per transaction since it presumably costs less if you don't have to paint it.
    I think what you're saying is are natties less popular, and the answer is yes, since sticky paint is easier to land tricks on.

    But, i find myself reaching for natties more often than not. Here's my top 3 reasons:

    1. I live on the beach and sticky paint picks up sand when you drop it. Gross.
    2. Natties last forever
    3. There is something very old school about a pure wood toy that appeals. This might just be in my head but it feels like natties are more "traditional" japanese weirdness whereas colorful paints make it feel more like a toy.
     
    Feb 25, 2019
  11. Jose Pablo

    Jose Pablo Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Location:
    Calgary
    In my perspective I struggle to play with natties simply just because of how dry the climate can be where I live. I've found that a dry climate hinders the proper break-in that a natty should get for overall play. No matter how much sweat I put into the dama, it seems like there are woods that just do not break in. Hearing how players who live/ travel to Japan for a kendama event tend to play in natties just because of how well it breaks in makes me kinda jealous since I don't quite get the same experience with mine. I still enjoy and pick up a natty from time-to-time, such as my RWB Classic and KUSA Shift. With that, I have to pick certain wood types that plays well even with the dry climate and I've found birch and beech to be the most playable for me personally.

    I would like to know what other players who live in dryer climates think about playing with natties! What are some other wood types that you've found to play well in dry climates?
     
    Feb 25, 2019
  12. goenKendama

    goenKendama Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Location:
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    @Jose Pablo You might check here, Shades of Grain, for possible treatments that would help your dry climate play. Maybe keeping a more porous wood hydrated with a wood treatment would help; something like Keyaki, Ash, Red Elm.
     
    Feb 25, 2019
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  13. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    Fair point, but I was actually talking about painted kendamas vis-a-vis natty kendamas in terms of aggregate sales. I don't have figures, but even if natty kendamas are cheaper to manufacture than painted, there seems to be more painted damas sold; hence, on the whole, painted kendamas seem to be more profitable. :)
     
    Feb 27, 2019
  14. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos n00b

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Location:
    Athens
    I tried a reshaoe Ozora and i just couldnt lighthouse so slippery the tama but on bird or ken stall was amazing also any spike sound just killed it. I think if the wood is not shined will play well it needs some king of grind and they look well after some slay. With paint it shows marks everywhere but you have help in lunars and lighthouse . 40 for the keyaki and 30 for the sticky. Two different plays each better than the other
     
    Mar 4, 2019
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  15. Foggy Windows

    Foggy Windows n00b

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2019
    One thing I believe to take into consideration too is.... a painted tama is also great for branding. Especially with pros and companies alike. A painted Tama is like a basketball jersey. Yes. I understand that they both play different. I'm just adding a point that hasn't been said. And thus definitely a point in the painted category.
     
    Mar 5, 2019
  16. Emil Apostol

    Emil Apostol DS Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Location:
    Philippines
    True! Especially sweets and their wild paint designs. Then again, you could also make the same argument for Natty tamas, Grain Theory being a prime (pun intended) example of this.
     
    Mar 5, 2019