Posting from my phone so let's hope this all translates. I posted this on Instagram and thought...hmm that'd be a good question for DS! "Question for you Kendama experts out there. What makes it a Tre VS a Laser Flip? In skateboarding where these tricks originated, it's based on your stance and if you 360 shuv + kickflip (tre) or 360 shuv + heelflip (laser). And that's just keeping it simple, if you really want to get technical the direction of the shuvit determines can change the name too. Now with a Kendama there's only righty and lefty. Is righty = regular and lefty = goofy? Or maybe it's based on your foot stance like skateboarding? If you play Kendama with your right foot forward you would be goofy? What do you think??
Yea that clip is the sort of lunar tré that most closely resembles a skate tré in my mind. The way people normally do them (it rotates more in the plane of a normal lunar flip) looks more hardflippy to me, but thats what people usually call a tré flip. You can spin them really 'tré-ish', really 'hardflip-ish', and everything in between. The fact there isn't a hard line at which it is one or the other kinda makes up for the lack of a naming distinction I guess? Its just a spectrum of trés. I've never used lazerflip as a name in kendama, its just like "left tré" vs "right tré", I think that gets the point across easier. Like you suggested, there isn't a clear translation of foot stance -> which hand and which direction? so I just don't really see the need to adopt a bunch of skate terms beyond the iconic 'tréflip' itself I guess
Since your feet determine the tricks in skateboarding, I don't think it would matter quite as much about foot stance for dama since your hands do the tricks. However, I would also say that righty = regular and lefty = goofy in terms of which hand you use to play dama though, but maybe a left handed person might feel differently. I've had people tell me this before, but I guess it would be way too hard to try and get people to try and rename a popular trick, especially since there is also a trick named hardflip now (but I don't think it's actually like a skate hardflip). In terms of flipping directions though, the way that I have had it explained to me is like this: I'm right handed, so flicking the tre towards the outside of my hand is a regular tre and a "lazer" would be flicking towards the inside of my hand. right handed players flick the tre north east (towards the outside of their hand). flicking the tre north west (towards the inside of their hand) would be a lazer. left handed players would flick a tre NW and their lazer would be NE. for inward lunars, the flips would be SW and SE. I learned the SW flip first, so I think it could technically be a lazer flip because I'm right handed and the flicking motion is going towards the inside of my hand.. I still get a bit confused when it comes to the inward lunar directions, so I'm probably gonna just refer to them as left and right tre flips from now on.
This topic is really confusing because kendama tres arent skate tres so now when someone does a skate tres on a kendama its like uhhhhhhh... The line seems pretty solid to me, Kendama tres are a lunar flip with a barrel roll. This trick was a 360 with a barrel roll(which is a tre in skating). Sadly kendama trick names regarding spins flips and barrel rolls are all messed up.. Skating has a defined and exact reason for each name. Instead of explaining frontside and backside and goofy vs regular im just going to say ___ direction 1 out of 2 OR 2 out of 2 because there are only 2 directions anything can flip, spin, or barrel roll. Skate tre = direction 1 out of 2 360 spin x direction 1 out of 2 barrel roll Skate laserflip = direction 2 out of 2 360 spin x direction 2 out of 2 barrel roll Skate hardflip = Direction 2 out of 2 spin x direction 1 out of 2 barrel roll Skate inward heel = Direction 1 out of 2 spin x direction 2 out of 2 barrel roll Because.. Kendama tre = Direction 1 out of 2 FLIP (instead of spin as in skating) x Direction 1 out of 2 barrel roll The names just dont match up so using any of the skate terms is mad confusing unless you use them exactly as they are in skating.. HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE CUZ I JUST PUT IN WORK TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORD THIS
Personally I think we name it kendama termed. We have regular and inward tricks as the opposite. So therefore we could have tre, and inward tre. Yes us skaters will cringe as we know the difference between lazer and tre flips on a board considering ones a frontside shuv heel, and the other is a backside shuv kick So hypothetically, if we all classified the axis in which the ken spins horizontally we could call it tre versus lazer. Say we go based if a "regular" stance in skating (even though I myself am goofy, where's all my other goofy people at!) Then since we all play dama "regular" if the ken spun to the left it'd be tre, to the right it'd be lazer
I don't think that kendama is really comparable to skateboarding. Skateboarding your doing the tricks with your feet, and you can easily switch which foot your using to do the trick, whereas in kendama, you rarely see anyone that is extremely skilled lefty and righty. I think it's just a really tough call, what really matters though, is that they're both insanely hard hahaha.
I was always under the impression that a tre flip was a lunar flip with a barrel roll, and a lazerflip was a 360 with a barrel roll. I had this conversation on instagram with some folks a few years ago, people get really opinionated over it haha
I'm going to indulge the skate-term-adoption for a second here, even though I don't think anything should be adopted beyond the word 'tré'... Going back to my original post, I'm now thinking 'hardlip' isn't the best term for it, since a hardflip is a fs shuv, whereas a more vertical kendama tré would still be spinning in the bs shuv direction (and in both instances, its rolling in the 'kickflip direction'). So... I guess its more of a 360 dolphin flip? The distinction I made before is more on aesthetics, but really: you could do a more vertically flipped tré on a skate as well, and that would be different from a 360 hardflip. This leaves some real tech dama tricks open though: the equivalent of a 360 hardflip or a 360 inward heel would be the ken flipping in one direction, but rolling in the other. So.. its like do the lunar flip towards the NE direction, but then push the barrel roll into the NW direction. I'm not sure I've seen someone mess with this? I'm just sitting here typing right now, maybe I'll pull out a dama and try it a bit later. Just to re-iterate: I think kendama should stick with 'left tré' and 'right tré'. The really flat 'pop-shuvvy' trés aren't super popular in the current meta, and they're just a sort of steezier version of the same trick, so I don't see a need to give them an exclusive naming.
I think I'd stick with simply how nick put it, I'm righty as well. And it's natural to flip the Tre outward. And so a lazer would flip inward!
I like the righty = regular and lefty= goofy! Then if you do opposit hand it's switch. Idk what fakie would be though?.....
(I don't think this is a good naming convention, but just for the fun of it..) fakie = inward lunars?
totally feel you. varying spins, flips, and rolls, has a lot of unexplored tech.. I just laced my first tre yesterday so i probably wont be pushing that boundary too far but i agree with you bro get into that!
We totally could do that for simplicity in kendama, but thats not the same as the difference between a tre and a lazer in skating.